A Churchill quote

[Phidippides]

Winston Churchill:

The biggest argument against democracy is a five minute discussion with the average voter.  The biggest argument against democracy is a five minute discussion with the average voter.

Query: what do you think he meant by this, and what does it tell you about people and democracy?

[scout1067]

You ever watch that piece Jay Leno did on the Tonight Show where he asked peopl on the street basic Civics questions?  I think it was called Jay Walking.  If you had you would not have to ask this question. 

The average person in America is a political idiot, they parrot what the press says with no introspection and have no desire to learn more.  I have actually seen people on Leno that could not name the sitting President, yet they were qualified to vote.  I think we should institute a basic civics test and quiz for knowledge of the essential issues being voted on before allowing someone to vote.  Yes, I am advocating a poll test, I also think we should require a picture ID and proof of citizenship to vote.  That last probably makes me an elitist and a racist.

[Phidippides]

Yes, I have seen the Jay Leno skits quite a few times.  I can understand your interpretation of the Churchill quote, which may be the correct interpretation about citizens being idiots, thereby necessitating the control of decision-making by the the more informed "elites".  I must have misread/misunderstood the meaning of the quote when I first read it.  I thought Churchill meant something else.

[scout1067]

I don't think decisions should be controlled by an elite, I think the average person should care.  Sadly they don't and then in the biggest irony of them all they get upset when their representatives do something they don't like.

Perfect example.  I had a guy I worked with who did not vote but constantly complained about how bad politicians and their policies are.  He was stumped when I asked how he had any right to complain when he was basically abrogating any responsibility by not voting.  He simply did not get it and I was not eloquent enough to convince him until I thanked him.  I thanked him for making my vote worth more because and oxygen thief like him did not vote.  That caught his attention.  He actually ended up an informed voter after several more conversations and debates convinced him to research issues for himself.

I coulod go on for days about the evils of the current system.  I have to admit though that the current system is better than anything else on offer unless there is a worthwhile dictator out there I don't know about.

[Phidippides]

I don't think decisions should be controlled by an elite, I think the average person should care.  Sadly they don't and then in the biggest irony of them all they get upset when their representatives do something they don't like.

I think this leads into a lot of issues.  I suppose the silver lining to the story about that guy is that the people who are ill-informed are likely the ones who won't be voting in the first place.  It is always staggering how many people in our nation do not vote.  We can say that they should, but would we really just leave it at that?  Better for us to say that they should brush up on the issues, and then vote.  It could be said that for the sake of the nation, it's better that they don't vote if they don't know what they're voting for.

But honestly, I don't think that simply knowing the issues or not is the real answer.  I think that there are plenty of people who we can say "know the issues" and still have the most backward views of what America is all about and how it should be run. 

I will make the scandalous statement of saying that it would be better for us to live under a dictatorship, so long as we could guarantee that the dictator would rule justly.  Since we cannot guarantee this, however, democracy works well in helping us to safeguard our liberties, even if it is wrought with perils of its own. 

[Wally]

While I agree that many voters shouldn't be on the rolls, according to The Big Apple , the authenticity of the quote is open to dispute. Any ideas where / when he said it?

[scout1067]

I still think we need a Poll Test or something similar.  Another idea would be to allow people the vote based on similar criteria to what Heinlein prooses in the written Version of Starship Troopers.  Of course, I could be biased given that I am in the military.

[Aetheling]

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings;
the inherent vice of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

                                                                Winston Churchill (1874-1965) British politician.

[Aetheling]

Who said :

Catch a man a fish, and you can sell it to him. Teach a man to fish, and you ruin a wonderful business opportunity ?

[hussein]

One should recall a quote from another speech that Churchill made to the House of Commons in November 1947:

Many forms of Government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.

[scout1067]

Who said: "What are the eleven scariest words in the English language?  I am from the government and I am here to help."?

[Aetheling]

Who said: "What are the eleven scariest words in the English language?  I am from the government and I am here to help."?

Some sources refer to Reagan with the nine scariest words, others to the NASA ...

I found a variant for you: ‘I’m an Environmentalist and I’m Here to Help’ 

[scout1067]

That is a good one as well.

Ii I remember correctly and I may not because I was only 9 at the time.  The government quote comes from his stump speech during his first run for President in '79.

[willyD]

Does this seem apropos these days?

that the greatest threat to democracy is the political polarisation and gamesmanship being played by political parties and interests across the spectrum.

People may get really fed up with the process and look to a man on a black horse (or tank) as has
happened so many times when people become disgusted with the chicanery of politicians--Weimar
might be a good example--it allowed Hitler to slip into the Chancellorship assisted by the grease of frustration and the venality of right wing politicians such as von Papen, Bismarck and their bankers.

[scout1067]

Does this seem apropos these days?

that the greatest threat to democracy is the political polarisation and gamesmanship being played by political parties and interests across the spectrum.

People may get really fed up with the process and look to a man on a black horse (or tank) as has
happened so many times when people become disgusted with the chicanery of politicians--Weimar
might be a good example--it allowed Hitler to slip into the Chancellorship assisted by the grease of frustration and the venality of right wing politicians such as von Papen, Bismarck and their bankers.

Horse puckey, there is no danger of a military coup or revolution in America.  The average citizen is way too apathetic to do anymore than whine and complain.  For all its volume(an laudable goals IMO), the Tea Party movement is drowned by the silent majority of idiots in America that are content to complain and continue voting for the same people.

It is the old enigma about incumbents are bad except for my incumbent.  I am one voter who does not intend on voting for the incumbent even were he to pay me to do so.  I may be a conservative but the current crop of Republicans needs to go in its entirety with maybe one or two exceptions.  I essentially think the entire elected arm of the US Government and probably a huge percentage of civil servants need to be replaced.  I am essentially advocating for peaceful revolutionary change, I have no desire to see heads roll, I just want new ideas and something other than the perennial gridlock in Washington.

Lastly, what does Otto von Bismarck have to do with the rise of Hitler?  Bismarck died when Hitler was a little boy in Austria.  Matter of fact, if Bismarck's policy had been adhered to WWI might not have happened.