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December 28, 2006 at 8:04 pm #494
Why did Spain, a very powerful and far reacning nation, lose it's place as a super power in Europe? Was it the emergance of England and France? or was it something more internal?December 29, 2006 at 2:11 am #7733DonaldBakerParticipant
Over extension of resources, diminishing returns in the Americas, and competition with England, France, Portugal, and the Netherlands I would say. England's rise as a naval power with the victory over Spain's armada in 1588 ended Spain's monopoly of the high seas and facilitated England's ability to maraud Spanish galleys traveling through the treacherous Caribbean trade route. Still the Spanish Empire continued on into the 19th century until they were driven out of North America completely and the various South American colonies fought for independence.December 29, 2006 at 2:26 am #7734
That was my thought, that they just over spent/over reached themselves. It seems the English were better at that game than the Spanish.December 29, 2006 at 2:58 am #7735DonaldBakerParticipant
That was my thought, that they just over spent/over reached themselves. It seems the English were better at that game than the Spanish.
As a matter of fact, the English made it a point not to follow after the Spanish model. They felt that the Spaniards were far too oppressive in their colonization practices....which they saw as just mere pillaging without a long term plan of growth and proper utilization of resources. So the English founded their colonies not on slavery (initially) but indentured servants to help the debtor segment of their population, and also as a place for religious dissidents and enterpising joint stock companies to prospect. The English model was based on a more complex socio-economic plan than the Spanish model. Spain was not interested in anything more than plunder in the early stages of their empire. Their expeditions were not meant to be outlets for their social outcasts or anything altruistic. Their motivations were to find gold and bring it back to Spain as a means of financing their true ambitions on the European Continent.December 29, 2006 at 4:22 am #7736
I should bring up the point that England, too, lost many of her colonies eventually. Just as Latin American independence was gained, so too was the independence of the American colonies and the loss of other colonies that Britain had established. At one point under Charles II Spain had one of the most vast empires the world had ever seen. If there's something I think history teaches us, it's that territories are morphic.December 29, 2006 at 6:06 am #7737
The only thing that never changes is the fact that everything changes.February 12, 2007 at 8:14 pm #7738
Something that's interesting about this is that although Spain lost her power over all these colonies, she planted her seed by spreading her language and customs to her colonies. I think Latin America is probably much closer to Spain than it is to the United States, even though the latter are closer geographically. Can the same be said of England and her former colonies?February 26, 2007 at 4:34 am #7739WallyParticipant
Ran out the Jews and hobbled the economy; none of the Spanish wanted to do the jobs that a Jew would do… wanted to be landed gentry.Ran out the Moors and wrecked agriculture (who knew more about irrigation and dry land farming than Moors from N Af?); again the landed gentry thing.When you're that pickey about your job you cna't be that pickey about your neighbors.WallyFebruary 27, 2007 at 1:20 pm #7740
But in my understanding the Jews were primarily engaged in jobs such as banking and lending money. See, for example this post where I had found lending became a “Jewish industry” as it was forbidden within Christianity.February 28, 2007 at 2:40 am #7741WallyParticipant
All too true… however, many merchants were Jews as well.On then subject of money lending my defense has been if a craftsman loans his tools it isn't bad to collect rent; what is rent on money... interest. Just my $0.02 (no interest :lol:)Cheers,WallyFebruary 28, 2007 at 2:52 am #7742
Yeah I think that is what they eventually came to, when Christianity stopped viewing the loaning of money with interest as being evil. And I now see what you mean about running the Jewish merchants out of Spain. When you stated “none of the Spanish wanted to do the jobs that a Jew would do” I thought you were referring to menial labor, but now I know what you meant.