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Adam Smith on national military

Home › Forums › Early Modern Europe › Adam Smith on national military

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  • March 1, 2013 at 6:04 am #28190 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    You do realize that prior to the outbreak of WWI Germany and England were each others largest trade partners don't you?  High levels of trade do not equal interdependence.

    March 1, 2013 at 10:16 am #28191 Reply
    skiguy
    Moderator

    I'm not sure what you're referring to specifically.  Are these sovereign nations trading with one another that we're talking about?  Or is this about British colonists trying to edge out African countries or India from sovereign claims to its own land?

    I'm talking about all the wars and skirmishes between GB, the Dutch, France, Spain, and Germany over their colonies and ports. Smith's theory is as flawed as Kant's theory that democracies do not go to war with each other.

    March 1, 2013 at 3:32 pm #28192 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    I'm talking about all the wars and skirmishes between GB, the Dutch, France, Spain, and Germany over their colonies and ports. Smith's theory is as flawed as Kant's theory that democracies do not go to war with each other.

    +1

    March 1, 2013 at 5:28 pm #28193 Reply
    Phidippides
    Keymaster

    You do realize that prior to the outbreak of WWI Germany and England were each others largest trade partners don't you?  High levels of trade do not equal interdependence.

    Stats I just found stated that Russia was Germany's largest trading partner, but your point remains.  As I mentioned before, it does not mean war is impossible; rather, it makes it less likely.  I think that by definition, high levels of trade do equal interdependence; that is what it's all about; one side depends on the other for supply/demand.  Germany did have more to lose by going to war, and went anyway.  I don't think trade is a magical means of pacification, but it does change the equation. I don't think it's a surprise that the nations who are currently most hostile to the U.S. are also those nations who are some of the most isolated from the U.S.  This is why I go back to the issue of China – China's economic interdependence with the U.S. seems to be on a crash course with Chinese political opposition to the U.S.

    I'm talking about all the wars and skirmishes between GB, the Dutch, France, Spain, and Germany over their colonies and ports. Smith's theory is as flawed as Kant's theory that democracies do not go to war with each other.

    I don't know the specific examples of the skirmishes you mention, and I'm not sure they apply; did these develop into large-scale wars, or remain skirmishes?  Were these major trading partners at the time of these outbreaks?  Did these outbreaks affect trade between the nations?  I don't know, so I'm unclear about those examples.  As for the idea of democracies and war, that seems like a false equivalency.  A democracy in one nation does not imply an interdependence upon another nation.  What would a democracy have to lose by going to war with another nation?  I'm not sure.  What would a nation have to lose by going to war with a trading partner?  Financially, it would lose plenty.

    March 1, 2013 at 5:45 pm #28194 Reply
    skiguy
    Moderator

    The Democratic Peace Theory is very similar to what Smith is saying, that's why I'm comparing it.

    I don't know the specific examples of the skirmishes you mention

    The Anglo-Dutch WarsThe Boer WarsGibraltarThe numerous naval battles between the Portuguese, Dutch, and French over India.Most piracy during the Early Modern periodAnd yes, they were all major trading partners although VOC and the East India companies eventually became monopolies.

    March 1, 2013 at 6:31 pm #28195 Reply
    Phidippides
    Keymaster

    In what way are they similar?  I would argue that the “Democratic Peace Theory” is separate from what I was referring to for the reason I gave – trading partners have something financial to lose by going to war.  I don't think the same applies to democracies going to war (at least, not in the same way).As for the wars – again, were the British and Dutch major trading partners leading up to the Boer Wars?  The Anglo-Dutch wars? The bottom line is that of course, wars happen, and wars have happened.  I'm not saying they do not.  All I'm saying is that the more nations trade with one another, the less likely they will be to go to war.  We could go back in time even to the ancient world and find nations that have traded with one another that have still gone to war with the other.  As globalization increases, however, we find an increasing level of interconnectedness – particularly in economics – which makes going to war more difficult, ergo less likely.  Of course, there will always be exceptions to this, or situations where you have some less-than-rational leader of a nation.  That's just the nature of the world.

    March 1, 2013 at 9:59 pm #28196 Reply
    skiguy
    Moderator

    An increase in globalization can lead to more reasons for war as well.  The Dutch were trading with British colonies and England didn't like that, plus England wanted more control of the sea, which led to the Anglo-Dutch wars in the 17th century. 

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