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I've been reading about “conservatives” and “liberals” (European mostly). It seems the conservatives were bad because they wanted the strong, monarchial )oppressive?) government and it was the liberals who wanted change and were for individual liberty. Is this an accurate definition? And when did it change? i.e. when did “liberals” become the bad, modern-day, “the government will take care of your every need” liberals we have now?
Ski,Consider this; the Founding Fathers were classical liberals… products of the Age of enlightenment (that's us methinks); so then the monarchists were consevatives. Fast forward to the progressive era [need to read Liberal Fascism] and here the change happens. The classical liberals wanted to maintain that type of gov't and the progressives co-opt the title liberal by wanting change (to a socialist / fascist type of gov't.).S. I. Hyakawa (sp?) said it best, “Some people have horse-sense and others are full of something else from horses.”Hope this helps,Wally
There were conservative Whigs who wanted to maintain rights (e.g. voting) in the hands of property-owning wealthy folks, as they did not think it right or good for the masses to have such power. They attempted to maintain the status quo even though they considered themselves to be “enlightened”, having been part of the group that dissolved Jacoban rule in the late 17th Century.The more liberal ones, or radical, Whigs thought that John Locke's views should be taken literally. They believed in voting rights for all citizens, and I think one could put the American Founding Fathers in this category; if nothing else, their views seemed to coincide with these more radical or liberal Whigs (though I could be wrong somewhere along the line). Note that the Tories were separate from the conservative Whigs, as were the Jacobites.
I'm caught again in an over-generalization… you're very correct. This is what I like about this forum… we all are able to contribute and flesh out each others' contributions. :)Cheers,Wally
But I see that I didn't answer Skiguy's last question….about how “liberal” became applied in the modern sense. I did notice, though, that we both did have the same view that the Founding Fathers were considered to be “liberals” within their political thought…this even though I think they would be considered to be on the far right by today's standards. Think of some of the early religious viewpoints and the way they associated this with the workings of the government in ways modern-day “conservatives” would never dare to follow. Such as….
Congress appointed chaplains for itself and the armed forces, sponsored the publication of a Bible, imposed Christian morality on the armed forces, and granted public lands to promote Christianity among the Indians. National days of thanksgiving and of “humiliation, fasting, and prayer” were proclaimed by Congress at least twice a year throughout the war.
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel04.htmlIt goes to show that the “conservative” and “liberal” tags are both relative to one's time in history.
It's kind of sad that religion is considered far right nowadays.The Founding Fathers would probably be considered fascist by the standards of today's Leftwing.Thanks for your answers and “enlightenment”. I need to check out that Liberal Fascism book, was just reading a blog about it.
