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The Angevin Empire

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  • December 19, 2009 at 9:57 pm #1843 Reply
    skiguy
    Moderator

    So is this the first time England started having an expansionist policy?

    December 20, 2009 at 7:39 am #17811 Reply
    Aetheling
    Participant

    So is this the first time England started having an expansionist policy?

    Had the Plantagenets, as at one time seemed likely, succeeded in uniting all France under their government, it is probable that England would never have had an independent existence. Her princes, her lords, her prelates, would have been men differing in race and language from the artisans and the tillers of the earth. The revenues of her great proprietors would have been spent in festivities and diversions on the banks of the Seine. The noble language of Milton and Burke would have remained a rustic dialect, without a literature, a fixed grammar, or a fixed orthography, and would have been contemptuously abandoned to the use of boors. No man of English extraction would have risen to eminence, except by becoming in speech and habits a Frenchman…….. (in T.B. Macaulay, History of England)The ruling class of the Angevin Empire was French speaking.

    December 20, 2009 at 8:51 am #17812 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    The English came into their French possessions through marriage and through Williams original domain of Normandy.Yes at one time French was the language of international Diplomacy and of the English Royal House.  That was before the disastrous absolutism of the Bourbons and French Revolution.  It also helps that the British managed to colonize so much of the world, so successfully, for so long.  Then again, Latin used to be the lingua franca too.The English attempts at to gain possessions in France were not so much colonizing as outright attempts at conquest.

    December 21, 2009 at 4:38 am #17813 Reply
    Aetheling
    Participant

    The English came into their French possessions through marriage and through Williams original domain of Normandy.Yes at one time French was the language of international Diplomacy and of the English Royal House.  That was before the disastrous absolutism of the Bourbons and French Revolution.  It also helps that the British managed to colonize so much of the world, so successfully, for so long.  Then again, Latin used to be the lingua franca too.The English attempts at to gain possessions in France were not so much colonizing as outright attempts at conquest.

    The reason why Plantagenet Kings were speaking French is that they had their roots in the French regions of Anjou and Normandy.Lingua Franca literally means “Frankish language”. This originated from the Arabic custom of referring to all Europeans as Franks. During the Middle Ages, the lingua franca was Greek in the parts of Europe, Middle East and Northern Africa where the Byzantine Empire held hegemony, and Latin was primarily used in the rest of Europe. Latin, for a significant portion of the expansion of the Roman Catholic Church, was used as the basis of the Church.From the 17th to the 20th centuries, France was the leading power of Europe; thanks to this, together with the influence of the Enlightenment, French was the lingua franca of educated Europe, especially with regards to the arts, literature, and diplomacy.English is the current lingua franca and it has replaced French as the lingua franca of diplomacy since World War II. The rise of English in diplomacy began in 1919, in the aftermath of World War I, when the Treaty of Versailles was written in English as well as in French, the dominant language used in diplomacy at that time.

    December 21, 2009 at 6:21 am #17814 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    The English came into their French possessions through marriage and through Williams original domain of Normandy.Yes at one time French was the language of international Diplomacy and of the English Royal House.  That was before the disastrous absolutism of the Bourbons and French Revolution.  It also helps that the British managed to colonize so much of the world, so successfully, for so long.  Then again, Latin used to be the lingua franca too.The English attempts at to gain possessions in France were not so much colonizing as outright attempts at conquest.

    The reason why Plantagenet Kings were speaking French is that they had their roots in the French regions of Anjou and Normandy.Lingua Franca literally means “Frankish language”. This originated from the Arabic custom of referring to all Europeans as Franks. During the Middle Ages, the lingua franca was Greek in the parts of Europe, Middle East and Northern Africa where the Byzantine Empire held hegemony, and Latin was primarily used in the rest of Europe. Latin, for a significant portion of the expansion of the Roman Catholic Church, was used as the basis of the Church.From the 17th to the 20th centuries, France was the leading power of Europe; thanks to this, together with the influence of the Enlightenment, French was the lingua franca of educated Europe, especially with regards to the arts, literature, and diplomacy.English is the current lingua franca and it has replaced French as the lingua franca of diplomacy since World War II. The rise of English in diplomacy began in 1919, in the aftermath of World War I, when the Treaty of Versailles was written in English as well as in French, the dominant language used in diplomacy at that time.

    I didnt not spell it out so succinctly because I did not think it needed to be said.  I assume that most posters on this board are aware that the English Monarchs after William spoke French because it has been a topic before.

    December 21, 2009 at 7:43 am #17815 Reply
    Aetheling
    Participant

    French enthusiasm ?  ::)

    December 21, 2009 at 9:38 am #17816 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    No, not really.  I personally think that Edward III had a better claim to the French throne than Philip did because he came from the direct line.  The Salic Law was used as an excuse to deny Edward the throne but the Salic Law had not been enforced to that time because linage to the throne through the male line had never been an issue before.  In the end it was irrelevant because the English could not gain the throne through conquest.  The eventual French defeat of the English is all the legitimacy that history requires.  You could almost say the the English failed the trial by combat and therefor God was on the side of the House of Valois.

    December 21, 2009 at 11:03 am #17817 Reply
    Aetheling
    Participant

    To my deepest despair, I agree  😛

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