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The Chinese and the Renaissance

Home › Forums › Early Modern Europe › The Chinese and the Renaissance

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  • November 10, 2009 at 3:21 pm #12942 Reply
    Wally
    Participant

    That they caused the Renaissance? Not that I ever heard.Had anything to do with Islam? Traded with folks along the Silk Road… contact likely.

    November 10, 2009 at 5:07 pm #12943 Reply
    Aetheling
    Participant

    Well, Muslims were between West Europe and Asia, it's not until Vasco Da Gama who could find a way to reach Asia that Europeans could trade directly with Asia. Until then, trade routes have to pass through the Muslim world. Not to mentioned that some Muslim scholars studied classical authors as well; sciences that emerged in Europe were also brought by Muslims (algebra, Averroes, etc) during their Golden Age.

    November 11, 2009 at 1:11 pm #12944 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    Algebra was initially developed by the Babylonians, Who invented Algebra.  I have often heard claims about how enlightened the early Muslims were but have seen no real proof yet that stands up to the light of day.  As far as I can tell, about the only thing the early Muslims brought was a fiery new faith.  What scientific discoveries did the Muslims make aside from some astrological calendars?

    November 11, 2009 at 1:43 pm #12945 Reply
    skiguy
    Moderator

    Optics and navigation. But this was apart from Islam, because the Arab scientists were considered heretics.They also could have made some good advances in medicine, but it could have been better had they been allowed to do disections.

    November 11, 2009 at 3:00 pm #12946 Reply
    Wally
    Participant

    Add the fact that their libraries held much of the classical knowledge that might otherwise have been lost during the Middle Ages. Not all, as some writters would have us believe, but a goodly amount* none-the-less.*Read Cahill; How the Irish Saved Civilization for more on this idea.

    November 11, 2009 at 3:10 pm #12947 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    Most of the classical material (read 90%) that was “rediscovered during the Scholastic period was found in monasteries in Greece and Western Europe.  I think that is the first time I have ever heard the claim that the Caliphates saved the knowledge of antiquity for posterity.  Might be true, though according to the History of the Enlightenment class I am currently taking most classical knowledge came out of Christian archives.

    November 11, 2009 at 3:50 pm #12948 Reply
    skiguy
    Moderator

    They (the Muslims) supposedly had most of Aristotle's writing in Alexandria.  Library of Alexandria was huge, no doubt.

    November 11, 2009 at 4:04 pm #12949 Reply
    Wally
    Participant

    … according to the History of the Enlightenment class I am currently taking most classical knowledge came out of Christian archives.

    Wonder if they are counting the libraries that were in the Moorish cities of Spain as Christian (after driving the Moors back to North Africa)?

    November 11, 2009 at 8:30 pm #12950 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    The most credible story now has it that the Library of Alexandria was destroyed when the Muslims took and sacked the town in the 7th century.Wally,  they probably are because the reconquista was complete when the Scholastics were really doing their searches.

    November 11, 2009 at 11:31 pm #12951 Reply
    Wally
    Participant

    Works for me.

    November 12, 2009 at 12:25 am #12952 Reply
    skiguy
    Moderator

    The most credible story now has it that the Library of Alexandria was destroyed when the Muslims took and sacked the town in the 7th century.

    Wasn't that account written six centuries after the fact?  Aren't there 2 or 3 others that were written closer that say otherwise?

    November 12, 2009 at 6:45 am #12953 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    The most credible story now has it that the Library of Alexandria was destroyed when the Muslims took and sacked the town in the 7th century.

    Wasn't that account written six centuries after the fact?  Aren't there 2 or 3 others that were written closer that say otherwise?

    The most often quoted account and the one I learned in school had the library being destroyed in Antiquity.  Sometime around the first or second century.  I personally have never heard that the Library survived into the early middle ages. I suppose it could be true, I have just not heard that.  BTW, that is one library I would love to have seen.

    November 12, 2009 at 4:52 pm #12954 Reply
    Aetheling
    Participant

    Bertrand Russell made the following remarks into this controversy about who really destroyed the library:As a matter of fact, this library was frequently destroyed and frequently recreated. Its first destroyer was Julius Caesar, and its last antedated the Prophet.in Bertrand Russell, Human Society in Ethics and Politics, Routledge: London, (1954), 1992.So people who destroyed that library are:Julius Caesar in 48 BCAurelian in the 3rd centuryTheodosius in 391Amr ibn al 'Aas in 642 (The first Western account of the book destruction was in 1663 and it was dismissed as a hoax or propaganda as early as 1713….)Why Romans are always absolved ??  8)

    November 12, 2009 at 5:29 pm #12955 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    Light-hearted answer: Because the Romans Rock. ;D

    November 12, 2009 at 5:30 pm #12956 Reply
    Aetheling
    Participant

    fan of Julius C. ?  ::)

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