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Yes–and I heard that red paint on your chiton was a mark of shame and could result in a fine. This isironic as we have lost thousands of people to defend our freedoms including the right to vote and yet the percentage of people who vote in primaries and elections are quite low. This could be explained by the fact that they are happy with the status quo, but I doubt that that argument can be supported in theseturgid times. Rumor has it that in Australia people are fined for not voting–could this be true?
Yes–and I heard that red paint on your chiton was a mark of shame and could result in a fine. This isironic as we have lost thousands of people to defend our freedoms including the right to vote and yet the percentage of people who vote in primaries and elections are quite low. This could be explained by the fact that they are happy with the status quo, but I doubt that that argument can be supported in theseturgid times. Rumor has it that in Australia people are fined for not voting–could this be true?
Can be if compusolry suffrage, just like in these few contries, Australia included :https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2123.html
I always taught that voting was the price we pay to be entitled to complain about our government. While I believe it is a right and a duty to vote, I am realistic enough to admit that there are those that shouldn't vote. Most that shouldn't, don't; compulsory would skew that up.
Wally!!!!!!!!You believe there are some who should not vote?My goodness, what a surprising statement.Just who might these people be–mental defectives, convicted felons, Socialists, neo- Nazi's, putative child molesters, people without even a GED, elitists, rednecks, racists, bankers, Payday loan employees, welfarerecipients, unwed mothers, deadbeat dads, circus clowns, the unemployed, Indians or perhaps those who haveunsightly tattoos?
Wally!!!!!!!!You believe there are some who should not vote?My goodness, what a surprising statement.Just who might these people be–mental defectives, convicted felons, Socialists, neo- Nazi's, putative child molesters, people without even a GED, elitists, rednecks, racists, bankers, Payday loan employees, welfarerecipients, unwed mothers, deadbeat dads, circus clowns, the unemployed, Indians or perhaps those who haveunsightly tattoos?
While it is possible the folks you propose might be on the list, mine is rather shorter; those that do not care enough to make themselves aware of the issues at hand and vote for a particular party or a person based on how cool they look or how neat their family seems. This type of behavior is a trait that is not restricted to the folks you have suggested and is actually far too common in our society. I'm just as sure that some of the folks on your list probably are serious and careful voters (agree with them or not, eh?); my point is don't waste a vote… do the homework and make your best effort to get it right… even if you vote differently than I did. The voter stub is your ticket to have an opinion on the results.
We need a poll tests of basic civics and the issues being voted upon. If you fail, you cant vote. We could even set the bar fairly low and say 50% correct is passing. I bet most would still fail the test.
Just give everyone the citizenship test as a requirement to get out of high school… or a Constitution test like we did years ago (8th grade then; when you could drop out at 16).
Just give everyone the citizenship test as a requirement to get out of high school… or a Constitution test like we did years ago (8th grade then; when you could drop out at 16).
That would assume that Civics is still taugt doesn't it? To the best of my knowledge Civics is rarely taught in American schools anymore. We had two years of it in the Catholic school I went to, in 8th and 10th grades.
I have often pondered why, in a democratic Republic such as ours, we care so little about teaching ourchildren about the structure and workings of our government on all levels. One could say myopia ordisinterest or budget concerns, but a friend, somewhat to the left of myself, claims that a sheep that is knowledgeable is a dangerous sheep. He might ask questions. Let the 20 percent be aware and school the other 80 percent for their proper role as cubicle dwellers, clerks and assemblers of imported parts in what we call factories. I think he is not completely wrong.
I cannot speak for all but I did spend a good deal of time on the Constitution and Bill of Rights with my students (8th grade). In CA the kids have US History in 5th, 8th, and 11th grades; US Gov't (National, State, and Local) in 12th grade for a semester… this is backed up by a semester of econ.While this looks like a great deal of coverage, there is alot to cover; my emphasis on the Const. is sort of unusual in my experience but I see so much ignorance of what that document actually says (and means) that it became something of a mission. Spent time on the BofR since most folks have that completely upside-down too.
…. … a friend, somewhat to the left of myself, claims that a sheep that is knowledgeable is a dangerous sheep. He might ask questions. Let the 20 percent be aware and school the other 80 percent for their proper role as cubicle dwellers, clerks and assemblers of imported parts in what we call factories. I think he is not completely wrong.
In a word (several actually) your friend is completely wrong. We are supposed to ask questions… our government is supposed to answer those questions to our satisfaction in a timely manner; if they don't we… “…the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”In another thread we spoke of revolution by ballots rather than bullets… this, I believe is what the founders intended, holding the bullets only as a last option. When 80% don't know the backstory the violent option becomes far more likely in my humble opinion. better an informed sheep than the goat.
Wally:You and I and my friend know the people ought to ask questions and constantly challenge the government. The government is not your friend–it is merely an imperfect instrument cobbled together for four years and attempting to run herd on an unruly populace.It is in the best interests of many elements of the society that the sheep do not ask questions, but fueledby horrid entertainment, booze, TV, drugs and cliches, and crippled by a sub-par education, work, obey,borrow money so as to consume products and essentially be good sheep–eat, excrete, procreate, consume and die.Also: You might get in trouble quoting Jefferson–stay out of Texas!
… in the best interests of many elements of the society that the sheep do not ask questions, but fueledby horrid entertainment, booze, TV, drugs and cliches, and crippled by a sub-par education, work, obey,borrow money so as to consume products and essentially be good sheep–eat, excrete, procreate, consume and die.Also: You might get in trouble quoting Jefferson–stay out of Texas!
Self-leveling though… these types often don't vote or if they do they follow the lead of their bosses, preachers, pork-producer Congressperson, or just whoever tells them more of what they want to hear. Back to “learnin'” them to ask questions and carefully judge the answers.Texas or not I'll stick with Jefferson on the Constitution.“On every question of construction, carry ourselves back to thetime when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spiritmanifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed.” –Thomas Jefferson to William Johnson, 1823
Wally:It is my considered opinion that the students, the teachers and the “suits” as well as the politicianswould be scared shirtless if the public schools embarked upon a program of political critical thinking.Such an effort, even if only partially successful, might well raise the rage level to the point wherea second Constitutional Convention would be approved. Need I say more–you know full well whathappened the last time that happened.I will stick with my view that obfuscation will dominate the debate and that the sheep–blissful in theirunacknowledged ignorance–will continue to be what they are–sheep–and they do vote! If they become unruly–well that is whatthe Maxim gun is for.
The Constitutional Convention was held because the Articles of Confederation could not address the problems the leaders needed to deal with. It was going to be impossible to modify the document we had in place and hence the Constitution. The Constitution, as written, can (if people will heed the Jefferson quote I supplied); it is the leaders that fall short today. We don't need a Constitutional Convention, we need a government made up of people that follow the Constitution we have. Given the argle-bargle to get the HC Bill through who know what kind of coat-hanger abortion we'd end up with for a constitution if we started with a fresh sheet of paper.Your remark about Maxim guns confirms the position of the anti-Federalists, to require a Bill of Rights tha
qt recognizes our natural rights… including the right to keep and bear arms. Sorry if this position seems a bit cross or testy but I take this seriously.AHA! Scared you right?The idea of a second CC scares lots of people. You recall that the first was called to adjust the Articles of Confederation–NOT to write a new Constitution. I know you take this seriously as do I and being “testy” does not appear to be part of your makeup–bravo!I have serious doubts that normal and peaceful means will suffice to bring about meaningful change inour governing process. Perhaps next election we will choose a person who can bring us together again, but until then we will live in our tribal enclaves (some walled) hurling invective at people who have the temerity to disagree with us. I also doubt that we will ever have another CC–so where does that leave me–perplexed and horrified. My wife just told me that every day for the net two decades 10,000 people a day (baby Boomers) will be eligible for SS and Medicare (Source–George Will )I sincerely hope that we can find a government that, staying within the Constitution, can find a way outof the box we have nailed ourselves into most securely. Enjoy the day–read Federal paper No. 10 andbe sure to grease the Maxim gun.
