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Warning–trap ahead. Date of British Empire beginning?

Home › Forums › General History Chat › Warning–trap ahead. Date of British Empire beginning?

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  • March 4, 2010 at 4:16 pm #19055 Reply
    Wally
    Participant

    The book is quite different in many ways. So too is Wicked (the book by Macguire) but good and gave me a new apprciation for the little green gal.  😉

    March 4, 2010 at 4:21 pm #19056 Reply
    willyD
    Participant

    Do you go along with the theory that the book was an allegory about the gold standard?

    March 4, 2010 at 4:56 pm #19057 Reply
    Aetheling
    Participant

    Agreed with WallyI'd would say since the Acts of Union in 1707 which joined the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland into the Kingdom of Great Britain. Even if the quest for new territories started long time before when King Henry VII commissioned John Cabot to lead a voyage to discover a route to Asia via the North Atlantic in 1496.At least, once united, no internal threat would endanger their expansion.

    March 4, 2010 at 5:01 pm #19058 Reply
    willyD
    Participant

    If the kingdoms were united what other kingdoms did they rule over thus fulfilling the idea that they were an Empire sans Emperor?

    March 4, 2010 at 5:08 pm #19059 Reply
    Aetheling
    Participant

    No need to have an Emperor to rule an Empire. Empire is closely related to Imperialism : “the creation and maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination.” France had an emperor once but its imperialism lasted more than Napoleon himself.A question of semantic ?

    March 4, 2010 at 5:12 pm #19060 Reply
    Wally
    Participant

    …. Empire is closely related to Imperialism : “the creation and maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination.” France had an emperor once but its imperialism lasted more than Napoleon himself.A question of semantic ?

    Agreed.

    Do you go along with the theory that the book was an allegory about the gold standard?

    Never heard that one… but no.

    March 4, 2010 at 5:30 pm #19061 Reply
    willyD
    Participant

    No need to have an Emperor to rule an Empire. Empire is closely related to Imperialism : “the creation and maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination.” France had an emperor once but its imperialism lasted more than Napoleon himself.A question of semantic ?Perhaps it is one use as a noun another as an adjective ORThe fact that the word has varied defininitions.So then the USA is an Empire?

    March 4, 2010 at 6:56 pm #19062 Reply
    Wally
    Participant

    Not really, though some of the trappings have been or ar present.

    March 4, 2010 at 7:21 pm #19063 Reply
    Aetheling
    Participant

    No need to have an Emperor to rule an Empire. Empire is closely related to Imperialism : “the creation and maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination.” France had an emperor once but its imperialism lasted more than Napoleon himself.A question of semantic ?Perhaps it is one use as a noun another as an adjective ORThe fact that the word has varied defininitions.So then the USA is an Empire?

    Yes it is.Does it have to do about ethics ?

    March 4, 2010 at 7:31 pm #19064 Reply
    willyD
    Participant

    Politics and Ethics–to me they are as chalk and cheese and I am an Idealist!  How horrid.

    March 4, 2010 at 8:22 pm #19065 Reply
    Wally
    Participant

    Yes it is.Does it have to do about ethics ?

    Or wishful thinking (on my part) as I believe that even though most folks were caught up in the Manifest Destiny idea it was not so much the Imperialistic mode, for most, as the shinning city on the hill mentality.

    March 4, 2010 at 8:28 pm #19066 Reply
    willyD
    Participant

    Or wishful thinking (on my part) as I believe that even though most folks were caught up in the Manifest Destiny idea it was not so much the Imperialistic mode, for most, as the shinning city on the hill mentality.I agree that “some” might have been so inclined, but I have perhaps a less optimistic view of human naturewhich is based both on experience as well as lots of reading.  John Calvin and the Catholic church both got it right in my opinion–we are essentially not good people–back to the killer ape idea where the Id rules.

    March 4, 2010 at 8:40 pm #19067 Reply
    Phidippides
    Keymaster

    So is there an actual answer to this trivia question about the beginning of the British Empire?  Or are you just going to leave us all hanging? (or did I just miss it?  😮 )

    March 5, 2010 at 10:15 am #19068 Reply
    scout1067
    Participant

    No hard date but sometime around the end of the 16th century when England essentially ran the Portuguese out of India and got serious about planting overseas colonies or trading enterprises.  I would date it to the reign of Elizabeth I.  It is not as if one day England was not an imperial power and the next day was.  It was kind of a gradual thing, like the sunrise.

    March 5, 2010 at 3:47 pm #19069 Reply
    willyD
    Participant

    Yes–one wit said it was sort of acquired by accident

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