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Who were the Hyksos?

Home › Forums › Ancient Civilizations › Who were the Hyksos?

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  • April 11, 2009 at 11:16 pm #10337 Reply
    kapitop
    Participant

    There is no evidence of a Hyskos presence in Egypt before the 14th dynasty.  Egypt was already well establish, advanced civilization long before the Hyskos came along. The Hyksos were completely driven out by the 15th dynasty.Ramses II had nothing to do with driving them out  because his reign was in the 19th dynasty, about 400 years after the Hyskos disappeared from Egypt, and it was the Pharaohs of the New Kingdom who established the monetary system, not the Hyskos.Mesopotamians invented the chariot c. 3000 BC (if your information is from Wikipedia, which states that the Hyskos introduced the chariot in Egypt, that is very debatable and likely incorrect). Egypt had contact with Mesopotamians and Hittites before the Hyksos came along.  There is more solid evidence that suggests it was the Hittites who introduced the chariot to the early Egyptians.

    That is a problem when aliens to a land interpret history. Asking a chinese to write about Rome. What can one expect ?Again, if you had read my previous post about how Isralite hebrews became slave in egypt NOT in MISR, it should have been clear to you. True, original Hykos were defeated 400 years prior to Ramses II. But eastern delta was NEVER truely under Pharaoh's control.That is a historical fact. Every egyptian historian would agree to that. Zuhi Hawas and other Egyptian historians believe, there was still residue of “FORIEGN” elements in the easteran delta even during the time of Ramses II “The Great“. Remeber, to Egyptians any foreigner was considered Hykos ! Just the same way, any alien is called immigrant in many countries, irrespective of their ethnicity.Many Egyptian historians argued right or worng that, these foriegn elements were remnants of original hykos.However, other historians argue, they were NOT hykos but other SEMITIC tribes from Mid-East. Both sides are in some way right. If one considers from Egyptian point of view, Foreigners = Hykos, then yes these could be called hykos, even though ETHNICALLY they may be totally different from the original Hykos.I never said, Hykos established monetary system. You are saying that. They introduced new land reform/distribution in MISR (Not in the western delta).Again, there is debate who introduced Chariots in MISR and later in EGYPT(western Delta). There are two camps here as well, Hittites or Hykos. Either way, chariots came to Nile delta from outside i.e. Foreign lands. Again, this is the argument forwarded by many, since to egyptians anything foreign meant Hykos, even if they were Hittites or others.

    November 12, 2009 at 12:49 am #10338 Reply
    ShotG0D
    Participant

    Why don't you ask yourself why?

    November 15, 2009 at 6:48 pm #10339 Reply
    DonaldBaker
    Participant

    If we got right down to it, I probably completely disagree with you as to whether the Jewish people demonize their opponents or not.  But that is my opinion and nothing more.

    I totally diagree with you too, that anti-semitism is NOT a political tool. Rather this is a political tool used to not only demonize opponents of jews but to blackmail as well. EU, America is literally scared even to utter simple truths. You can go and critisize the pope, presidents of any nation and anyone in the whole wide world, but NOT any acts by jews. Question acts of Nixon, thats perfectly ok, ask about Kissinger, thats a NO NO.They are always the victims, always the good guy !  Anyway that is my opinion.

    I'm sensing another Anti-Zionist thread brewing.  Doesn't the internet have enough of these floating around now?  Sigh….

    August 15, 2010 at 6:22 pm #10340 Reply
    Phidippides
    Keymaster

    I'm going on record as saying the Hyksos were actually Hittites.  There is som archaelogical evidence for this and other scholars have made the supposistion.  Do a Google for Hyksos and Hittites and you'll start seeing some books discussing it.

    The Hyksos were Semitic-speaking while the Hittites were Indo-European speaking.  So unless there was some major language split that developed over the span of only a few centuries, I am not sure how the theory that the two groups were the same could be reconciled.

    Just watched a show last night on History channel that makes the claim the Hyskos were the Jews.  Something with the timing of a volcano/the plagues of Egypt/crossing the Red Sea. (the claim was standard consensus has it off by about 100 yrs or so)  Don't know if it makes any sense, but it was interesting.

    So since the Hyksos invaded and occupied Egypt c. 1700 B.C., that means that the Jews conquered the Egyptians?  I dunno about that…sounds like they'd have to rewrite the history books if that theory were true.

    August 15, 2010 at 6:36 pm #10341 Reply
    skiguy
    Moderator

    The Hyksos were Semitic-speaking

    How do you know this?

    August 15, 2010 at 7:09 pm #10342 Reply
    Phidippides
    Keymaster

    The Hyksos were Semitic-speaking

    How do you know this?

    A trusted historian who stated it as fact, rather than something which scholars disagreed on.  Did you hear something different?

    August 15, 2010 at 8:40 pm #10343 Reply
    DonaldBaker
    Participant

    I'm going on record as saying the Hyksos were actually Hittites.  There is som archaelogical evidence for this and other scholars have made the supposistion.  Do a Google for Hyksos and Hittites and you'll start seeing some books discussing it.

    The Hyksos were Semitic-speaking while the Hittites were Indo-European speaking.  So unless there was some major language split that developed over the span of only a few centuries, I am not sure how the theory that the two groups were the same could be reconciled.

    Just watched a show last night on History channel that makes the claim the Hyskos were the Jews.  Something with the timing of a volcano/the plagues of Egypt/crossing the Red Sea. (the claim was standard consensus has it off by about 100 yrs or so)  Don't know if it makes any sense, but it was interesting.

    So since the Hyksos invaded and occupied Egypt c. 1700 B.C., that means that the Jews conquered the Egyptians?  I dunno about that…sounds like they'd have to rewrite the history books if that theory were true.

    How long does it take to assimilate into a culture?  Could not the Hyksos have assimilated first and then conquered later?  I'm just throwing that out there for thought as I don't really know myself.

    August 15, 2010 at 9:20 pm #10344 Reply
    Phidippides
    Keymaster

    How long does it take to assimilate into a culture?  Could not the Hyksos have assimilated first and then conquered later?  I'm just throwing that out there for thought as I don't really know myself.

    I am not terribly familiar with this history either, aside from the Hyksos invading Egypt in the mid-1700s B.C., which brought an end to the Middle Kingdom.  They came from the land in the Middle East (Palestine), I believe the same land which had been taken over by the Akkadians around 2300 B.C.  The Hyksos were eventually driven out of Egypt, ushering in the New Kingdom and Egyptian territorial expansion.  Meanwhile, the Hittites were in Anatolia (Turkey) and clashed with the Egyptians somewhere near modern-day Palestine, ending in a draw.  So, I suppose there could be a chance that the Hittites in Anatolia had broken off from the Hyksos while they were in Mesopotamia.  But I'm still not sure where the different language would have come from, unless the Hittites were the product of a Hyksos splinter group being absorbed into yet another culture already in Anatolia.

    August 15, 2010 at 9:33 pm #10345 Reply
    skiguy
    Moderator

    The Hyksos were Semitic-speaking

    How do you know this?

    A trusted historian who stated it as fact, rather than something which scholars disagreed on.  Did you hear something different?

    I was under the impression that no one ever found any Hyksos inscriptions, so the language is unknown. I could be incorrect though.

    August 15, 2010 at 9:41 pm #10346 Reply
    donroc
    Participant

    Interesting posts, which in some instances reveal more about the poster than shedding light on the subject.I am summarzing below some material I have read over the years.Regarding the Hittites, according to the racist British-Israel World Federation (interesting faux history there too), in their publications (which I have in my possession) they show bas-reliefs from the pyramids that “prove” modern Jews resemble Armenoid Hittites and are a mongrelized mix (as if non-Jews are not) while Anglo-Saxons, Danes, and Celts resemble Israelites and are of the lost Ten Tribes. It's all in the curve of the nostril, they claim.  ::)Regarding the Khazars, the concensus seems to be that only the ruling family and aristocracy converted to Judaism.Regarding Europe, at the time of Jesus, the Jewish population was as high as 5-10% of the hundred million population of the Roman Empire, up to 90 % of them living outside of Palestine. A diaspora of choice. They could be found from Hispania, Gaul, Italy, and Germany to the Black Sea. Cyrenica and Alexandria had populations in the hundreds of thousands. Pagan conversion to Judaism was not unusual because of the Sabbath and family values, but limited because of male circumcision. Later, Paul understood that.During the “Golden Age” for Jews in the Carolingian Empire and after, there were up to 15,000 conversions from among both Pagans and Christians from the 700s to the First Crusade, which began the great massacres over the next centuries. Many Jews fled East not west to Poland where they were welcomed by the rulers for another brief Golden Age.Regarding the Hyksos, it seems we are awaiting the “smoking guns” for definitive answers that will never please those who have vested academic interests in their conclusions and others who have specific biases. Regarding DNA, is one going to argue that the 20% of Spaniards who have Sephardic DNA ( from a recent study) are descended from Khazars?  One also may speculate how many people everywhere have Jewish DNA from ancestors who chose conversion to Christianity and Islam over death.

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